A battle six years in the making

My latest attempt to qualify Rwanda’s progress to the incredulous mind of a critic

Over Christmas, Timothy Kalyegira and I got involved into a heated SMS exchange about Rwanda, a subject I am deeply interested in and one that he is equally obsessed with without noticing it. I had told Timothy that Presidents Yoweri Museveni and Paul Kagame were having a relaxed and cordial Christmas in Rwakitura as part of the effort to reconcile themselves and their two countries. Below are excerpts for anyone to read and judge for themselves.

Timothy Kalyegira (TK):

For a deep and enduring healing between Tutsi and Hutu to take place in Rwanda, a similar gesture towards Victoire Ingabire, given the reality of these traditional and sentimental societies of ours, can go much further in stabilizing Rwanda than an over emphasis on efficient government bureaucracy and building infrastructure.

Andrew Mwenda (AM)

But Ingabire does not represent Hutus as you think. The current commissioner general of prisons of Rwanda is a former commander of FDLR. The current commander of the reserve force of Rwanda was chief of military intelligence for FDLR. Jeannette Kagame’s personal assistant is a daughter of Kayibanda. So many Hutus who were opposed to RPF have come back and reconciled. You ignore all of them (actually you do not know about them).

But Rwanda is doing more than what you are asking for. Are you aware that 55 percent of the officer corp of the RDF are ex-FAR (the army under former President Habyarimana)? Are you also aware that the constitution of Rwanda says that no political party can hold more than 50 percent of cabinet posts regardless of the votes it gets? It also says that the president and speaker of parliament cannot come from the same party? Are you aware that the current president of the senate was Kagame’s main challenger in the last elections? Are you aware that Rwanda has a political parties’ forum which meets at least once every month and its chairmanship rotates among all parties regardless of the size? And the decisions of this forum are what influences government policy and legislation?

TK:

Most people, no matter how you discuss and reason with them about religion, will not change their minds. It’s a non-negotiable topic. That is what Rwanda is to you. You abandoned Christianity and today you follow a religion whose church is the RPF and Kagame, the messiah. Nothing will change your mind.

AM:

Now notice that I sent you a list of things you want the government of Rwanda to do; showing that it is doing more than what you are asking for. Rather than challenge me on the very things you ask for, the facts I presented to you, you reply by accusing me of believing in RPF as a religion and Paul Kagame as messiah.

It is that attitude that shows your disinterest in the reality of Rwanda and your obsession with your prejudices about it. In fact, to correct my earlier message, Jeannette Kagame’s executive assistant is daughter of Sindikubwabo, who was president immediately after Habyarimana died (during the genocide). Tim, to ignore all these facts and begin attacking my person is beneath contempt. In fact most Tutsi complain that Kagame has given the country and the revolution over to Hutus especially Hutu women. A common joke in Rwanda is that “If you are not Hutu and a woman, you have no place in Kagame’s Rwanda”.

TK:

Ok running out of airtime. I had to respond to this part on religion. I did not just wake up and start “hating” the RPF. In fact in 1994, with the genocide raging, I wrote an article in New Vision or Monitor urging Museveni’s government to urgently support the RPF. That was before I got new facts.

AM:

Angel Tim is never wrong. I do not expect you to change your mind even in the face of new facts because that is who you are. You have accusations against RPF without proof in logical consistency or factual validity. And you want people to believe them. I have given you facts. You can fly to Rwanda and verify for yourself. Surely, you lack a soul Tim or you are terrified of admitting to being wrong and you prefer to wallow in your prejudices than listen to facts.

TK:

Well, you have not proved that I do not have facts. How you can conclude that I do not have them, I wonder. You will get them, do not worry.

AM:

It’s been six years now of us debating Rwanda. All you have given me are erroneous accusations without factual validity or logical consistency.

TK:

I have not given you my research facts. You will get them. Being the researcher I am, do not imagine I can hold such strong views on Rwanda without getting a few hard facts to back up my views (or bias). I was not born with these views on Kagame and I am not a Hutu with an ethic reason to have them.

AM:

If you had them, I imagine in the six years we have spent debating Rwanda, you would have produced them. But I will give you the benefit of doubt. Yet you refuse to respond to why you think that of all Hutu that Kagame/ RPF has reconciled with, only Ingabire matters. You are obsessed with this one person to the point of ignoring more prominent and powerful and influential Hutu leaders.

Are you aware that the chief of staff of the ex-FAR during the genocide and who had also been Habyarimana’s chief negotiator in Arusha, Marcel Gatsinzi, has been minister of defense until two years ago? Are you also aware that Kayibanda’s sister is the commissioner for the children’s commission? Are you aware that senator Augustine Yamuremye, who also represents Rwanda in the AU parliament for the last eight years, previously minister of foreign affairs, agriculture etc.. is husband to the daughter of Kambanda, the prime minister during the genocide and who has been convicted by ICTR?

Are you also aware that children of genocidaires are being sponsored to study abroad by the government; that even Hutu rebels in Congo send their children to Rwanda who study for free and are given scholarships to study abroad without discrimination because government has a policy of not punishing anyone because of their parents? This is not to mention initiatives at lower levels to return Hutu exiles with amnesty. I can go on and on giving examples of what is happening. You just do not want to admit it, Tim. Of course all this is not to mention government policies and programs that benefit all Rwandans equally- health care, education, infrastructure, agriculture extension services, beautification of villages and towns etc.

TK:

We started arguing about Rwanda in 2006. I am glad you had the foresight to give me the benefit of doubt. I have refused to sympathize with Gen. Nyamwasa just because he fell out with Kagame. Why? My research shows he has blood on his hands. So it’s not as if anything anti-Kagame I support. I am looking for the truth. Kagame and the RPF have never hurt, cheated or disadvantaged me in any way, so I do not have reason to oppose them, except because of facts. Even if Rwanda became a glittering G-7 economy tomorrow, my views on the RPF and Kagame would not change. As a moralist and interested in justice, it is the trail of blood of the RPA that interests me, not in beautiful streets. No doubt, however, that in public administration the RPF has been fairly good.

AM:

Did RPF kill? You bet it did. I do not expect any war without collateral damage. The standard is whether a movement killed indiscriminately. On this ground, RPF is a sane movement. Second, you claim RPF killed but have not presented any facts to back up your claims. Even if you gave those facts, we still have to assess whether any such killings were indiscriminate and therefore a character of the organization or if they were incidental and therefore acts of errant officers.

TK:

If, as I do my research, I discover that my data or facts about the RPF’s trail of blood are wrong, I will publically, in a written article, apologize for having misunderstood them. And from that point, I will start liking Kagame and RPF and I will not care whether or not Kigali has fast internet.

On April 15, 2005 when the Daily Monitor ran that day’s installment of your biographical series with Obote, when Obote gave his side of the Luwero massacres, I sent you an emotional SMS thanking you for your part in shedding light on that crucial point of Ugandan history. If I were to discover that the information I have about the RPF is wrong, I would visit the Rwandan embassy and apologize. That genocide is very important and personal for point scoring or ego.

AM:

Are you aware that of the 54 percent of women serving in Rwanda parliament almost half of them are from the forests of Congo where they had run for refugee from RPF and were afraid to return until they returned? It is unfortunate the government of Rwanda cannot come out to list all these things because first it seeks to promote people on merit than tribe, and second because it wants to avoid such categorizations.

TK:

Some of what you are telling me, I did not know and I am taking note. That’s how I do research: listening to all sides. As I have said, if my research proves wrong about the RPA/RPF, what else? Over questions of human life and blood, I will be glad to fully acknowledge my prior erroneous position. I have researched the RPF from the early days of Tutsi refugees in Uganda; these refugees joining the GSU and state research bureau; the first Rwandan association in 1979, formation of the RPF and the house where it was held; the Tutsi elite in Kampala who fell out with Kagame in 1987; the planning meetings for the1990 invasion; the first month inside Rwanda; deaths of Rwigyema and company; the first bodies floating to Kagera river in 1994 genocide.

AM:

I am waiting to read your findings and subject them to a forensic audit for both their factual validity and logical consistency. Four days later, I sent Tim an extra SMS on this subject: I have been meaning to reply to you on the importance you attach to human rights in your assessment of countries and leaders. For a man who has made it his mission to white wash Idi Amin’s atrocities, this was very shocking to me. For a man who has always praised western economic dominance, especially the United States (a nation build on black slave labor and genocide of the indigenous people on America), I just cannot understand you anymore.

This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it

Bookmark

Email this

Comments (34) Add Comment

Subscribe to this comment's feed

Mr
written by Ganja, January 10, 2012

Andrew,why this obsession with Rwanda? Everything you read and say of recent is tinted with Rwanda.Why?

Give TK time to complete is research
written by ojfrog, January 10, 2012

AM, its only logical that you allow TK time to 'concreatise' and publish his many years research on RPF and Kagame. The first few years of NRA were good and those who wrote about Uganda's new found military government were full of praise for the general, his politburo and the ten point programme they paraded then...25 years down their road, and their true colours are showing in darkness....TK is weary of such camouflage and realizes its only time that will wash away RPF's decoy or prove their legitimacy...i agree with TK on the dirty trails of RPF and with AM on RPF's current spectacular progress..

...
written by Rajab Kakyama, January 10, 2012

Of lately, Mwenda seems to understand nothing and no one apart from Kagame. But just like a kid, once you buy them a toy, they immediately lose interest in the old one. Andrew Mwenda seems to be going through a child phase, he is simply ecstatic about his late achievements and it is only fair if he is given the honors. Andrew, if I had 10 mangoes and lost 2, I would have lost 20%. However, if you had 100 mangoes and lost 2, you would have lost 2%. The total number of mangoes lost is 4, each of us would have lost 50% out of the total loss. This is a simple illustration to give you an over view of what is happening in Rwanda. 80% of Rwanda popullation is Hutu, to have a cambinet where 55% are Hutu and 45% are Tutsi is imbalance. Hope I will get the response of a statistician.

AVOID SIMPLISTIC DISUCUSSIONS
written by Marc, January 10, 2012

I have read with keen interest the few comments by they all seem to personal attack on AM. the story is simple, i wouldnt expect people to scratch their heads while discussing this issue, but i am surprised on how people are facinated with AM and forget that they have have to discuss and present logic and facts as AM eagerly asks TK to do but hye fails in the six years. Let us stop presents opions as naked truth.

Andrew Mwenda Patient Job-like!
written by Paget Kintu, January 10, 2012

Andrew given the way you sound off when on radio, I must commend the patient manner you respond to TM in this piece! You do an amzingly patient job and foce him to listen and accept to recheck his "facts" please start doing this even on your live shows!

Appreciate where it is due
written by Marc, January 10, 2012

In most case people forget that there are other people who are reading their nposts and turn biases into facts. we have learn alot but nothing. Let us give due appreciation to our leaders where it is necesary, when shall we learn to accept our mown and work to postively enhance the image of Africa. No white is gona do that for you.

Nothing can be deducted from this kind of conversation
written by Raymond, January 10, 2012

A good interesting read, coming from two fanatic contradictory view points about Rwanda. However, I wouldn’t attach any importance to this conversation because the fields were not levelled at all, in the first place. A closer analysis of Andrew long text msgs reveal a prior preparation i.e. having it in mind that he would publish the conversation. Of course this, he did not tell Tim who was not so much bothered and just engaging in what he, in all likelihood, thought was a casual conversation. Views in this kind of environemnt don t mean anything to me-and I argue to many analytical researchers or even to people who have attained an 'average level of education.

King Herods: In the End Kagame is Museveni's Peter
written by Ocheto, January 10, 2012

The parallels with Uganda's Museveni are so uncanny it is hard to not see, that despite their personal and armies' brush-ups both at the border and with the Congo, how Kagame has been Museveni's best student/disciple. The political window dressing Museveni has done between westerners vs. the rest of Ugandans and Kagame the Tutsi vs. Hutu is so identical they reflect the same thinking and design; especially using the genial and less aggressive fair sex to evade confronting the more violent and adversarial male populations is so similar. But Kagame's immediate existential problems or foes may turn out to be with his fellow Tutsi defector male general unless they kill all males like King Herod tried in vain.

...
written by Lt Col Adam Kifaliso, January 11, 2012

In the end it will be m7 who will fail Kagame and Rwanda , and you Andrew ...........well at least you have eaten some food,eeeeeeeeeee, mbu the ''Oil Docs'' , were a work of Otafiire ........! Don't now suspect the president also to be behind this ''oil docs'' saga ........leave it as it is ,the truth will come out soon

Waiting on Karyegira for proof
written by makaporo, January 11, 2012

Whether Mwenda was better prepared for this exchange is a non issue. What is more important here is that Karyegira, as someone claiming to have vast expertise and research on Rwanda, should been having FACTS OFF HIS FINGER TIPS to mount an intellectual and factual response. To be honest, Karyegira dissapointed me. I don't care about Kagame or Rwanda, but the truth. Offering an apology is not enough, Timothy should also publish ALL (right or wrong) that has made him pour his negations on Rwanda like a whore scorned.

A Gomezi Act of 2012
written by Ocheto, January 11, 2012

In the end all Ugandan men instead of wearing kanzus will be attired in gomezis.

wake up
written by david kintu, January 12, 2012

what i have realised is that many critics of mwenda blame him for eating from the kigali regime and forget to look at the bare facts he is presenting.what i know about andrew over the years is that he follows facts,Okay lets assume he eats from kigali,does that mean that we rubbish facts he presents..people lets be more analytical please..

...
written by Mental slavery, January 12, 2012

While Tim is obviously a bit of a conspiracy theory nut who has failed to back up any of his arguments, Mwenda's own view of Rwanda must be taken with a pinch (or two) of salt, given that much of his personal income comes directly from the Rwandan government - clearly he is not an objective observer either.

...
written by Joseph, January 12, 2012

AM, what are you trying to prove by posting your comunication with TK?

...
written by @rutonh, January 12, 2012

@Rajab Kakyama, hey what it is about those statistics, how do you know that this one is hutu or tutsi!!! those 80 percent where are they coming from?

...
written by 1Gent, January 12, 2012

Whenever i read the comments that follow these articles, I sometimes feel such disappointment. I blame the lack of innovation in our countrys' syllabus for the gross lack of critical analysis displayed. But I have to agree with makaporo, TK should have these facts on his fingertips. All i read from him seems mere adumbration. Nevertheless, i welcome his seeming willingness to learn.

Where do I get the %ages
written by Rajab Kakyama, January 12, 2012

I do not want to seem to be insensitive. I remotely follow what goes on in Rwanda and in one of my discussions with Fr. Antoinne Rutaisire, he came to note that Rwanda was like a fractured leg in the cast; one that needed atmost care. But sometimes when treating a cancerous body, one has to carry out the most painful of surgeries to stop the cancerfrom spreading. It is only delusional forone to think that Rwanda is a monolithic society. It is propable that after the genocide, there were only 300,000 dult Tutsi left. But 17 years later, the popullation of Rwanda stands at more than 11 million. Explain the maths?

Be more topical: ANC did right to rebuff Kagame, Museveni, et. al.
written by Ocheto, January 12, 2012

There are a lot of relevant topics and issues for journalists to sink their teeth of reporting and commentary it makes no for people like Mwenda to keep on recycling the same drivel over and over again. After all they job is to record history not to analyze and judge it, a job for historians. For example just this week Kagame, Museveni, and several political leaders within Africa went to South Africa ostensibly to celebrate ANC’s 100 years of its founding and the shared success in its dismantling of Apartheid and they got snubbed. Kudos to the ANC for rebuffing these undemocratic tyrants.

Be more topical: ANC did right to rebuff Kagame, Museveni, et. al.
written by Ocheto, January 12, 2012

. We are now in the second decade of the twenty first century, and all of Africa is free from colonialism and Apartheid, in the case of South Africa, it is time to move on to consolidate democratic and instill open society practices, customs and values. Unlike most of the rest of Africa South Africa is REALLY a democracy. Their immediate challenge is lifting up those in the lower economic ranks, not democratizing. Even though ANC has been a dominant ruling party since they defeated apartheid they rightly refused to provide a platform and a forum for leaders who are running undemocratic, one-party states to legitimate their undemocratic credentials and intentions. ANC or South Africa should not be used to justify entrenching one-party dictatorships.

Be more topical: ANC did right to rebuff Kagame, Museveni, et. al.
written by Ocheto, January 12, 2012

And ANC wasn't about to raid their treasury to pamper undemocratic rulers. They have better used for their public funds, but most importantly they have and follow, and adhere to and respect national regulations, rules and laws: the cornerstones and tenets of democratic governance.

Tutsi & Hutu
written by Apolo, January 13, 2012

@Andrew Mwenda, you're good at telling who is in what position in Rwanda, do you mind educating us about what biologically constitutes Hutus and Tutsis?

-1

Happy new year to all
written by Andrew M. Mwenda, January 13, 2012

I am disappointed the attacks on me are very few this time. I was expecting all sorts of this. Now the thrill is gone. For Apolo, the Hutu-Tutsi categories are not biological but political

Is The Independent now a clearing house for SMS debates?
written by Che, January 13, 2012

CNN was recently disparagingly referred to as a clearing house for tweets by the American comedian Jon Stewart. (This because CNN fills in a lot of time airing received tweets, since they don't have enough news to fill their 24-hour cycle.) Mwenda lets hope you are not turning The Independent into a clearing house for smses!

It is a tale of two Extremists here
written by Mugalu, January 13, 2012

I think this is a tale of two extremists, one TK who is an extreme Kagame hater and infact a conspiracy theorist and on the other the biggest Kagame Fan (AM) whose writings on Kagame remind me of the saying that "What you see depends on where you stand".

...
written by Lt Col Adam Kifaliso, January 13, 2012

Andrew you didn't tell us in details about Kagame's visit to Uganda ,like you m7's visit to Rwanda , does it mean you are more free in Rwanda than Uganda......?Why are power tariffs going up when new dams are being commissioned ?

TK can never be taken for granted
written by Owor Arthur, January 15, 2012

Though Andrew comes strong in terms of facts...TK in my opinion should not be taken for granted... He should be accorded more time...Andrew should, try delving into this notion of "faking democracy" and then let us know if he will still hold the same views about Rwanda!!

Mr
written by Jimmy Spire Ssentongo, January 15, 2012

From what I read here, TK sounds evasive on facts. Mwenda on the other hand is more of a paid piper playing his payer's tune. Talking from his stomach, he can hardly voice any wrong. You will certainly miss his old self and feel offended when he continues to quote Mandela's famous defense in self-placement. You no longer belong to that esteemed category Andrew though I still consider you as an intelligent man (abused intelligence)

Text Message!
written by eric , January 16, 2012

AM, I have never seen any text message that long. It seems you have re-edited your responses. It looks quite legit that TK's are real text messages. Be fair

ERIC

...
written by cv writing services, January 16, 2012

Their immediate challenge is lifting up those in the lower economic ranks, not democratizing. Even though ANC has been a dominant ruling party since they defeated apartheid they rightly refused to provide a platform and a forum for leaders who are running undemocratic, one-party states to legitimate their undemocratic credentials and intentions.

...
written by Mukombozi, January 16, 2012

In my opinion TK was not aware and wasnot probably prepared for the sms exchange and their subsequent display...Great exchange though,,,Dear readers, i believe TK invested alot in his reasearch about Rwanda and its leaders and as a result he paid dearly in terms of time invested in the project and financially dug deep in his pockets...how can someone access your findings offcourse on commission.

interesting..
written by Rigosong, January 23, 2012

The last four and other commentators have very interesting points, AM can I post something longer than just a few sentences, if yes thru' who and what's the mail add. I could use?

...
written by Rigosong, January 23, 2012

n btw I wonder which phone set can handle your kind of lengthy paragraphs, could it be you're picking tech from the NASA or the C.I.A!?

why the obsession with equal tribal representation?
written by katamba mutyaba, January 25, 2012

the whole topic above is mostly premised on how many hutu/tutsi are in government or public service? i wonder why as Ugandans we are so obsessed with tribal equality in government jobs. i wonder why we instead dont emphasize the efficiency, competence and work ethic of public servants. i mean, if every member of government were effective in their duties, would it matter how many baganda or alur are in government? every citizen would have equal opportunities regardless of whether their tribesmates were in government or not. seriously, i think the reason we are having issues as a country (and maybe region) is because we have not learned to think critically. how i wish our schools would add unto their syllabi a course in "effective thinking skills"!

Zero efficiency
written by Rigosong, January 28, 2012

It's know who not know how in a tribalist/ nepotic situation like ours, so where is efficiency? and this is the reason UG is experiencing brain drain. Tell that to M7 who after 26yrs of tribalism, nepotism all responsible for the erosion of patriotism now turns back to budget for the promotion of the same in schools. Patriotism, like trust and goodwill, can't be bought or taught, maybe under marxist/ communist arrangements, it then becomes propaganda. It'll be very strange that you don't appreciate the problem and setback a nation gets when it's deeply involved in tribalism, nepotism, descrimination of some class, tribe(s). The best example is Rwanda, they move one forward and always two in the opposite!

Write comment

A battle six years in the making

Podcasts

Videos

RECOMMENDED

MOST READ

LATEST COMMENTS

POLL