In 2003, President Yoweri Museveni established a commission of inquiry to investigate the existence of ghost soldiers on the army register. The commission was chaired by the Defence Minister, Amama Mbabazi and included generals Salim Saleh and David Tinyefuza. Former Army commander, Maj. Gen. James Kazini appeared before the commission in October 2003 and below are the excerpts.
Q: There was a payment recently in March 2003 which you authorized from 2 Div for some NYAs who were claiming that they had not been paid and this claim was routed to you direct from 2 Div commanders, after which you endorsed it to DF. A question arises, does the AC (Army Commander) authorize such payments.
Kazini:  Yes. At that time the COS (Chief of staff) COS was not in. Even with his assistant, because me I can’t relate with his assistant. You remember he is not a deputy COS, he is just a mere assistant. So I had an emergency, people were demanding their money so I took it upon myself to write to DF and I had the right to do that because COS was not there. I can’t delegate to an assistant COS because he is merely an assistant. I can’t. There is no way somebody can get anything from military assistant, so in the hierarchy the assistant COS, I don’t know him. If it were the Deputy COS, I would have done it.Â
Q: Is it true also that he has no schedule of work?
Kazini:  I don’t know. You ask the appointing authority. He is a military assistant to the COS.Â
Q:Â Â Merely an assistant?
Kazini:  I think so. Assistant, the word assistant what does it mean? In establishment its not there. If there was a Deputy COS as stipulated in the establishment we would know that office is authoritative but an assistant how?
Q:Â Â Â So how were you working with him?
Kazini:Â Â No he was working with his boss.
Q:Â Mr. Chairman I wanted to find out whether that letter was addressed to the COS then he acted on it or it was directly addressed to you.
Kazini:  I don’t recall. It could have been either of the two.
Q: He seems to have suggested that he doesn’t understand the phenomenon and element of NYA and apparently the authority was for the NYAs. Didn’t he find it necessary to ask?
Kazini:  I am the one who authorized for a top up of 2nd Div and I expected that the COS and DOR would go and document. How they became NYA, I don’t know. Those were serving soldiers who had served for some time even they had claims.
Q: He is saying that he ordered top up, soldiers were topped up now allocation of service numbers was not his responsibility. That is what he is saying. So for him, here he was authorizing payment of the soldiers who were on record. But that they had no numbers he can’t deny that is why he signs. That is what he says.
Kazini:Â Â Exactly.
Q:Â Reasons for removal of Maj. Mutengesa and Maj. Kananura from the department of records.
Kazini:Â Â Kananura was records. Director of Records.
Q Before we come to that Gen Kazini, doesn’t it surprise you as AC you keep people on record without service numbers and you don’t task your officers.
Kazini:  We do. We task.
Q:Â Were you asking them why they were keeping soldiers without numbers.
Kazini:Â Â Records team goes and documents them.
Q: You used to do that?
Kazini:Â Â Yes.
Q:Â What would they tell you?
Kazini:  They would come back and now the issue of allotment of service numbers would not appear. We don’t know why. Because that culture of service numbers I tell you is not my business. I didn’t inherit it but we would say authority has been given for 2 Div to top up the depleted units. For that matter COS should send a documentation team. The messages are in the books.
Q:Â For allocation of service numbers?
Kazini:Â Â Documentation, taking records meaning that when they come back they are supposed to report straight away.
Q:Â Â Â But it was never done?
Kazini:Â Â It was never done.
Q:Â Â Â Briefly can you comment on the removal of those two Directors.
Kazini:  But NYAs you see I have been an AC for 1 year and seven months, Afande Muntu was AC for nine years, weren’t there NYAs? I think a big number of NYAs was during that period of nine years those of Afande Muntu’s term.
Q:Â Â Â You found NYAs.
Kazini:Â Â Yes, thousands and thousands of NYAs.
Q:Â Â You found them as long as that and did you take some effort to try to alleviate or solve the problem of NYAs?
Kazini:  I said that service numbers was a secret.  It’s a nightmare. Allotment of service numbers is a nightmare to me being AC and even I think the C-I-C (Commander-in-Chief).Â
Q:Â Â Â Why do you think people were reluctant to give service Numbers? Could it be related to ghosts?
Kazini:  Yes. That means you can sack and fire anytime you want.
Q:Â Â Â There is no traceable record?
Kazini:  Yes. You can’t trace. Because you see, remember when Republic House was burnt; it was at a time when all of us had been documented. Allotment of service numbers in my view wouldn’t be difficult. That is why I was telling you that if you now come to irregular forces which are reserves the story is subsequent. That one you don’t even have to waste your time because you can never even trace anything.
Q:Â Â Â With Reserves?
Kazini:  Totally, don’t waste your calories for nothing.
Q:Â Â Â Briefly Sir on Maj. Mutengesa and Kananura.
Kazini:  I was trying not to send them away because I wanted to clean the department. Mutengesa as an individual ran away for nothing because what we were waiting for was to close the department. We created Verex under him saying this is the man at theVerex so that we get to find out the problem. That was the mission at hand not that I wanted him arrested or witch hunted, no we wanted to find out all this. The first Verex man is here, he is a member of the Committee, he knows that the problem, even now he must have left without knowing how those figures come to his table.
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