Comments for Anti-gay bill diversionary- Latigo at http://www.independent.co.ug , comment 1 to 28 out of 20 comments http://www.independent.co.ug Wed, 08 Feb 2012 16:51:56 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.independent.co.ug/column/interview/2282-anti-gay-bill-diversionary-latigo#comment-23087 I do not support homosexuality in any form. However, I wonder whether the passing of the current bill will effectively remove homosexuality form Uganda. I would advise Hon. Bhatti to draft a tough bill on corruption, which should be endorsed and passed by parliament before the homosexuality bill. The reason is that, curruption is so cronic in Uganda that the promoters of homosexuality do anything to bribe the very same people who have drafted, voted for and passed the homosexuality law. - Mo Wed, 06 Jan 2010 00:41:07 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/column/interview/2282-anti-gay-bill-diversionary-latigo#comment-22553 The real question is WHO IS NEXT. This is how previous regimes sowed the seed of their own destruction. There are no gaps in the present laws of Uganda. The real gaps are in education and understanding. I often wonder it its Uganda's landlocked geographical status that has also resulted in a landlocked mentality as well. I repeat again it is the Sugar Daddies raping our daughters that should have the zelots beating down the gates of parliament, but perhaps that might raise further dilemmas in the august house! - Brian Mon, 21 Dec 2009 22:22:05 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/column/interview/2282-anti-gay-bill-diversionary-latigo#comment-22552 Simon, not sure where you formed this view. But you should probably add, 'in my/our opinion' this is a very narrow end exclusive view. The principal problem with your thesis is you can remove the word 'homosexuality' and replace it with Adulterer, Polygamist, Alcoholic, Tutsi, Jew in fact anybody you do not like or disagree with. This is why this bill is so repugnant to any rational person. It simply discriminates and more dangerously it sets a template for intolerance. - Brian Mon, 21 Dec 2009 22:21:28 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/column/interview/2282-anti-gay-bill-diversionary-latigo#comment-22550 Simon, perhaps it is you who has missed the point. If say 5% of Ugandans are Gay (a low % by international surveys) them maybe there are over a million gays in Uganda. Now with that as a voting block especially in the Urban areas, perhaps the same fickle politicians who cannot stand up to the bombast of this bill may actually be canvassing the 'pink' vote in 2011. Next election will see the 'Obama' Yes we can effect twitter, messaging, replacing loudspeakers for a media savvy generation, and yes a good number of Gays amongst them as well. So perhaps the opposition are actually being both realistic and politically astute. Perhaps its the backers who are the 'Vocal Minority' just as they were in last years Presidential and Congress elections in the USA. - Brian Mon, 21 Dec 2009 21:54:02 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/column/interview/2282-anti-gay-bill-diversionary-latigo#comment-22548 I have followed with interest the views of the majority of Opposition especially FDC on Homosexuality,Anne Mugisha and now Latigo seem to have missed it completly and i want to tell them that im seriousely disapointed and reconsidering my allegience to FDC b'se of their surport to homosexuality. This is a private member's bill by Bahati and not the governmet or the president. Laws every where encourage good and discourage bad and we need this bill to fill the gaps the penol code has about this act of homosexuality,so we can properly discourage it in our country. FDC wake up!!! - Simon Mon, 21 Dec 2009 20:40:10 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/column/interview/2282-anti-gay-bill-diversionary-latigo#comment-22547 I don’t subscribe to this notion that Gay or lesbians “Homosexual People” are the cause of Uganda moral mayhem. Knowing the Uganda political histories of victimizations, the general public needs to be warier of this anti gay bill. Once, it is enacted into law, it will be unleashed not only on to the Gay and Lesbian people “Homosexual People”, but to put away political opponent and the regime critics. Since, previous charges such as alleged rape, terrorisms, treason charges and incitement of public did not do a fine job. Thanks Brian, for mentioning the Uganda little kept secret “ the homosexuality in the Kabaka Mwanga II Court in 1886”. - Sam Mon, 21 Dec 2009 18:24:32 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/column/interview/2282-anti-gay-bill-diversionary-latigo#comment-22546 And African culture is not perfect simply for being African. Nor does culture remain static. Culture may even be contradictory or treat certain people as oddities: left-handed people, short people, Albinos, etc. Christian (missionary) historiography tended to put homosexuality at the centre of the Uganda martyrdom narrative. But Professor Semakula Kiwanuka assigns it a minor role (see his books "A History of Buganda" and "Background to the Martyrs", where he cites rivalry between Christian youth and older Ganda chiefs (represented by Katikkiro Mukasa); Mwanga's genuine fear that Christian converts might be used by colonial agents; and of course Mwanga's own fickle (unpredictable) behaviour, among others. - Rev Amos Kasibante Mon, 21 Dec 2009 18:09:56 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/column/interview/2282-anti-gay-bill-diversionary-latigo#comment-22544 I have read arguments on African culture & practices, with some comments being emphatic about what is or is not African. In my opinion, we need to proceed by method of enquiry/research. We do not have adequate knowledge of African cultural practices prior to Western/Christian or Arab/Muslim incursions into Africa. Some portraits of "African culture" are idyllic. In African culture(s), as in other cultures, some things were on the surface; others were hidden. Arabs may or may not have introduced homosexual practice to the Kabaka's court. Christian missionaries might have wanted to slight them when they learnt of the presence of a practice that they loathed. Then again (read next part) - Rev Amos Kasibante Mon, 21 Dec 2009 17:58:55 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/column/interview/2282-anti-gay-bill-diversionary-latigo#comment-22540 @Brian - on the Anglican side, the Lambeth Conference of 1998, whose resolutions on homosexuality the Church of Uganda adheres to as the orthodox and biblical tradition also took the same line as the Catholic Church. It denounced homophobia and encouraged acceptance of people with a homosexual "orientation", only adding that they should remain "chaste" (abstain from sexual acts). The current wholesale attack on homosexuals simply for being so would therefore be misplaced and would run counter to the pastoral requirements of the Church of Uganda. Rowan Williams has rightly said that the Bill would "turn pastors into informers". - Rev Amos Kasibante Mon, 21 Dec 2009 16:52:00 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/column/interview/2282-anti-gay-bill-diversionary-latigo#comment-22508 If I may add just another point. How is the Catholic Church to react to this bill. Some Bishops have even supported it, even though the Catholic Church teaches that Homosexuality is not a sin only the sexual act! So lets imagine a 21 year old gay catholic confessing to his priest his 'Sin' to get absolution. The priest is now in posession of information relating to a serious 'crime; what is he to do, go to the police and report the 'gay activity' and break his vows to god or remain silent and become a criminal? What a dilema. Mind you given the churches appalling record of child sex abuse hundreds or priests would have been hung under a similar law if it was enacted in the USA and Europe. Jesus wept! - brian Sat, 19 Dec 2009 10:26:19 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/column/interview/2282-anti-gay-bill-diversionary-latigo#comment-22503 yesterday a 54 year old American was released from prison after serving 35 years for raping a 9 year old boy when he was 19. However new DNA tests now prove that he was not the rapist. Sex with a minor and rape of a minor is a heinous crime that deserves severe punishment. However if this individual had been sentenced under the proposed bill he would not have seen his 20th birthday, and never would his innocence been established. So when 'Christians' propose killing in the name of justice they should really look at their own conscience and faith, as Jesus said let you with no sin cast the first stone. By the way the commandments do say 'Thou shalt not kill' unless there is fine print under 'unless he is gay' then i go bu Gods word. - Brian Fri, 18 Dec 2009 22:00:16 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/column/interview/2282-anti-gay-bill-diversionary-latigo#comment-22500 Notwithstanding all I've said above....the proposed bill will make a repugnant law. We are a country of various sized minorities. We should be vigilant against laws that seek to oppress any particular group amongst us. This is not to say I advocate homosexuality. A balance should be found between oppressing and protecting. However if a law dein's to protect the vulnerable -then it should not fall on its own logic - girls prey to sugar daddies are vulnerable, women forced into prostitution are vulnerable as are those in abusive domestic relationships...is there a legislator drafting a draconian bill to "protect" them? - Adok Too Fri, 18 Dec 2009 20:19:24 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/column/interview/2282-anti-gay-bill-diversionary-latigo#comment-22498 The proposed law hinges on- 1. That homosexuality is "against nature" and 2. It is "un-African." The first point is still under debate. Geneticists have not conclusively settled the argument. The question whether it is "un-African" is at the core of my original question whether the nationalities within Uganda have words that express the notion of homosexuality...in the same way as there is a word for wife or husband in each village and tongue across the country. Rev Kasibante provides us with a Kiganda word but says it is a little known word. What is the literal translation of the word...does it express "homosexual" or is it the familiar type of insult for men who are considered "unmanly"? Without the African word, it may not be African! - Adok Too Fri, 18 Dec 2009 19:58:40 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/column/interview/2282-anti-gay-bill-diversionary-latigo#comment-22497 If the aristrocrats of Nkore practiced homosexuality, in what form was it manifested? Was it open male or female relationships? Or is this another instance were allegations were made about Nkore's ruling class by those who understood that such allegations would inherently shock and appall whoever heard them and thereby weaken the aristrocrat's authority? "Dirty Gossip" can ruin relationships...even within families....if blood is thicker than water; then mud is thicker than blood! The new law risks creating a fractious atmosphere where "dirty gossip" is used to destroy people's lives. - Adok Too Fri, 18 Dec 2009 19:33:53 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/column/interview/2282-anti-gay-bill-diversionary-latigo#comment-22486 Adoko Too and Rev. Amos thank you for your thoughtful additions now I think we may have a debate and really look at these issues. I also agree that a smear may have been part of the colonialists plan, the British did perfect the policy of divide and rule, even Adolf Hitler marveled how the British managed to rule India with so few of their own there. Can I throw a few more aspects into the debate. - Brian Fri, 18 Dec 2009 12:48:07 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/column/interview/2282-anti-gay-bill-diversionary-latigo#comment-22477 @Adoko Too - raises a valid question: If homosexuality existed. What were the names for it in our local languages? Mwenda (in an article on this subject) cited Dr Mwene Mushanga as a scholar who has written that homosexuality was practised among the aristocratics in the Nkore kingdom. Baganda refer to it as "ebisiyaga" (although that is a little known word). But on words: what are the words in our local languages for sex or sexual organs? The ones used are either euphemism or considered too vile to be used in public. There was that secrecy about matters of sex and that might explain the dearth of words. Today, if you were teaching school kids about sex, what vernacular words would you use? - Rev Amos Kasibante Fri, 18 Dec 2009 01:22:35 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/column/interview/2282-anti-gay-bill-diversionary-latigo#comment-22476 However being vigilant does not mean we should discard the values that make us particularly Ugandan. Is homosexuality something imported..."learnt from the Arabs" as the Colonialists charged Mwanga or through the interchange of global culture? Perhaps we should first ask fellow Ugandans to look within their communities. Words are a testament. If a word does not exist then a thing does not exist. If cannot be expressed in language then it is yet to exist in consciousness. So I ask...can the various nationalities within Uganda confirm whether there is a word that translates as "homosexual"? The British called it "bad manners" to express it to the Baganda. What did the Baganda call it before the British, What do the Acholi, Iteso, Yoro, Ankole?!! - Adok Too Thu, 17 Dec 2009 23:59:54 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/column/interview/2282-anti-gay-bill-diversionary-latigo#comment-22475 You raise an important point that the proposed law may be used as a tool for "smearing" and "witch hunting". Have you considered that Mwanga may have been a victim of smearing? It strikes me that homosexuality came to issue when Mwanga began favouring the Arab traders against the British. I submt that the British realsing the conservative nature of Africans sought to "smear" Mwanga with the goal of shaking the king's authority over his subjects. The accusations of "bad manners" against Mwanga were made by the likes of Ham Mukasa...a beneficiary of the colonialists. The British themselves state that Mwanga had "learnt" his habits from the Arabs....any one see a connection? Uganda is a country of minorities of differing sizes. We should be vigilant against any laws or social conven - Adok Too Thu, 17 Dec 2009 23:38:18 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/column/interview/2282-anti-gay-bill-diversionary-latigo#comment-22469 Just consider why the aids commission see the need to erect huge billboards outside the gates of Makerere, Nakawa MUBS, Kampala International University etc showing "Sugar Daddies' well those cheering this Bill through should seriously consider that Moral Crusaders will if passed see this as their FIRST victory. So what will be next, Sugar Daddies, Adulterers, Polygamists, if you think they will stop with gays you are fools, Good Luck - Brian Thu, 17 Dec 2009 21:51:15 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/column/interview/2282-anti-gay-bill-diversionary-latigo#comment-22461 As many commentators have pointed out the REAL threat to our children is from Sugar Daddies having 'STRAIGHT' sex with our Daughters. Not some imaginary 'foreigners' 'introducing' gay sex to innocent Ugandans. I think the white missionaries found plenty of homosexuality when they reached Mengo for the first time, read the accounts, was it not when the same white fathers encouraged the Kabakas pages to say NO that they were dispatched to be killed and become the Uganda martyrs, so much for new colonial practices - Brian Thu, 17 Dec 2009 20:45:13 +0100