Comments for Anti-gay bill opens a Pandora’s Box at http://www.independent.co.ug , comment 1 to 35 out of 20 comments http://www.independent.co.ug Thu, 29 Jul 2010 22:20:50 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.independent.co.ug/index.php/column/comment/70-comment/2092-anti-gay-bill-opens-a-pandoras-box#comment-21872 Looks like US religious extremists can't win the fight in the US so they're focusing their attentions on Uganda to use Jesus and his message of love to start the murder of homosexuals and the governing of morality. Congratulations if this bill is passed Uganda for you will become the embarrasment of the world just like NAZI GERMANY!!!!! - Craig Wed, 02 Dec 2009 06:10:45 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/index.php/column/comment/70-comment/2092-anti-gay-bill-opens-a-pandoras-box#comment-21555 "The fact is, even members of the American Psychiatrists Association realise they de-listed homosexuality as a disorder under political pressure." That is scarcely an apolitical approach to the matter. - Omeros Fri, 20 Nov 2009 12:52:32 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/index.php/column/comment/70-comment/2092-anti-gay-bill-opens-a-pandoras-box#comment-21554 Why do you ask me and others to waste our time on a conservative blog poring over inaccurate summaries of discredited studies that no decent journal will publish (note, the American Journal of Psychiatry declined to publish Spitzer's paper) when we can rely on the official position of the various professional bodies that set the mental health industry's standards? When those defeated by argument insist that the facts speak for themselves that it is usually indication enough that the facts do no such thing. By all means, argue the politics of this sensitive issue, but do not attempt to misrepresent the science that supports the orthodoxy since you are evidently not competent to challenge that orthodoxy. - Omeros Fri, 20 Nov 2009 12:47:58 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/index.php/column/comment/70-comment/2092-anti-gay-bill-opens-a-pandoras-box#comment-21551 Spitzer's work and a lot of other research has been SUMMARISED and collected in one place on www.exgayuganda.blogspot.com. See April posting 'No Gay Gene Found' and the rest. The fact is, even members of the American Psychiatrists Association realise they de-listed homosexuality as a disorder under political pressure. The causes continue to reveal themselves and the psychological and physical effects are legion. There is no need to fulminate. The facts speak for themselves. ET. - Eseza Tukule Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:14:41 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/index.php/column/comment/70-comment/2092-anti-gay-bill-opens-a-pandoras-box#comment-21543 As if proof were needed that you did not read Dr. Spitzer's research, you mis-state his sample size when you claim that he studied "thousands of ex-gays". in fact Spitzer's sample size for his study was 200. Your claim is particularly comical since the sample size appears in the very title of Spitzer's paper. I doubt that you hold the PhD for which you claim to have studied since you appear not even to have mastered the basic tenets of shoddy schoolboy research such as accurately reporting what you find on Wikipedia. - Omeros Fri, 20 Nov 2009 02:22:54 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/index.php/column/comment/70-comment/2092-anti-gay-bill-opens-a-pandoras-box#comment-21537 Far from "proving" that homosexuality is a treatable illness, Spitzer's study has earned him the opprobrium of the vast majority of his fellow professionals. Your claim that the APA is revising its statement on reparative therapy is simply false and I challenge you to show me any statement in which the APA has undertaken to change its position on the matter in response to any recent finding. Frankly, New Springtime, you are a dishonest charlatan who cannot be trusted to do anything other than mischief with simple (and verifiable) facts. - Omeros Thu, 19 Nov 2009 23:16:19 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/index.php/column/comment/70-comment/2092-anti-gay-bill-opens-a-pandoras-box#comment-21536 Again, as you will know, Spitzer's research was carried out in 2001. Its conclusions are considered by most professionals in the field to be predicated on bad science, in particular, in the study's use of non-randomised sampling (nearly a quarter of the samples in Spitzer's study were provided to Spitzer by NARTH and 40 percent of the sample was provided by Christian groups). Spitzer's research was peer-reviewed in 2003 and largely found to be wanting. Lawrence Hartmann, erstwhile APA president and professor at Harvard Medical School considered the Spitzer study "too flawed to publish". He also called it "irresponsible and unscientiifc". - Omeros Thu, 19 Nov 2009 23:14:44 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/index.php/column/comment/70-comment/2092-anti-gay-bill-opens-a-pandoras-box#comment-21535 New Springtime, as you will know, the APA produced and filed the amicus brief I mentioned with the Supreme Court of California in 2007. The Supreme Court of California relies on the findings of that brief to this day in the decisions it makes in relevant cases before it. The Royal College of Psychiatrists in London put out a statement in support of the APA's amicus brief in which it states that "[t]here is no sound scientific evidence that sexual orientation can be changed". The Royal College also specifically disavowed the position of the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality - a group with official affiliations to conservative Christian groups such as Focus on the Family. - Omeros Thu, 19 Nov 2009 23:05:49 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/index.php/column/comment/70-comment/2092-anti-gay-bill-opens-a-pandoras-box#comment-21534 Banange don't support something that your Ssenga or grandma never taught you coz you think the Mzungu is smarter than your own pipo. Most empires were destroyed by heterosexual immoraliy & homosexuality. Read the history. Don't allow the mzungu to throw wool over your eyes. When it comes to matters of family life and social ethics, we Africans/Asians are first world and the gay-loving divorce-promoting Europe/North America is third world. When it comes to finance/economy & science/technology, that is where they beat us. Many youths are copying evil ideas from bazungu. Plse don't ashame yr family. - Ssanyu Thu, 19 Nov 2009 22:35:46 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/index.php/column/comment/70-comment/2092-anti-gay-bill-opens-a-pandoras-box#comment-21533 All my kyeyo friends out there in U.S., Canada, U.K., Australia, New Zeaeand, South Africa, Sweden and other countries which are pretending that homosexuality is a normal habit, PLEASE SAFEGUARD YOURSELF. Keep your sanity. Don't buy into their lies simply because they have nice paved roads and shopping malls, and pay your salaries. Don't copy everything blindly! Where they are wrong, e.g. attempts to make homosexuality mainstream, BE BRAVE & CORRECT THEM. Where they're right, e.g. use of high technology, be wise and emulate them. Be a discerning person. Stay a true African even when on kyeyo. - Shoestopper Thu, 19 Nov 2009 22:13:09 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/index.php/column/comment/70-comment/2092-anti-gay-bill-opens-a-pandoras-box#comment-21531 The Christian ministry EXODUS has vast experience in loving gays and helping them to convert. They will not condemn you or judge you but will pray for your deliverance. Any gays out there, look for help with this group as it exists in several countries. Numerous Ugandans on kyeyo pretended to immigration authorities that they were gay in order to claim persecution & get assylum. They lived with gay communities on reaching the west in order to appear genuine. After getting papers they defend homosexual lifesyles out of gratitude to their gay European friends who first hosted them. But if you love gays (or any other sinners) pray for their healing, deliverance & coversion. Don't confirm them in their sin!![b][/b] - Worshippa Thu, 19 Nov 2009 21:46:04 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/index.php/column/comment/70-comment/2092-anti-gay-bill-opens-a-pandoras-box#comment-21493 Rev Amos, we weren't fools to recruit students in the open. We knew the law and culture in Ug did not favour us. We did it clandestinely. In some schools students were caught but headmasters would not to disclose our presence for fear of ruining the school's public reputation. As for our international funders, just do a google search and see! [i]Some of those who funded our group are very googlable!! [/i]Please do not deny recruitment coz it's happening even now. I have given the police some information. Let's hope they act. Reverend, let's help kids to convert to Christ. Denying tactics of Satan does not help people turn to God. I pray the British don't convert you into a homosexual apologist. Keep your Holy Spirit fervor. - ExGay Wed, 18 Nov 2009 23:07:28 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/index.php/column/comment/70-comment/2092-anti-gay-bill-opens-a-pandoras-box#comment-21488 Omeros, you cite "old" views of mental health organizations which are now disproved by the recent research I cited. The organizations are now revising their statements to reflect new science. For instance, [b]Dr. Robert Spitzer[/b], one of those who helped craft the [b]American Psychiatric Association[/b]'s pro-gay statement back in 1973, now acknowledges [u]homosexuality is treatable[/u]. He studied thousands of ex-gays who underwent therapy, recovered from it and had sustained the recovery >5 years. He found the [b]therapy had made >78% of gay men and 95% of gay women heterosexual [/b](This cure rate is higher than some anti-malarial drugs). By the time of Spitzer's study, 3/4 of ex-gay men &1/2 of ex-gay women had married. Dozens of new studies show the same. APA is revising its statement to reflect the findings. - NewSpringtime Wed, 18 Nov 2009 22:32:10 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/index.php/column/comment/70-comment/2092-anti-gay-bill-opens-a-pandoras-box#comment-21410 @ New Springtime - when studying for your "PhD" (I won't enquire where you read for it), while trawling through the 30 years' worth of "meta-analysis" conducted by the APA, did you encounter the amicus brief it published with, inter alios, the NASW which reads thus: "Sexual orientation has proved to be generally impervious to interventions intended to change it, which are sometimes referred to as “reparative therapy.” No scientifically adequate research has shown that such interventions are effective or safe. Moreover, because homosexuality is a normal variant of human sexuality, national mental health organizations do not encourage individuals to try to change their sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. Therefore, all major national mental health organizations have adopted policy statements cautioning the profession and the public about treatments that purport to change sexual orientation."? If not, why not? - Omeros Tue, 17 Nov 2009 03:36:38 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/index.php/column/comment/70-comment/2092-anti-gay-bill-opens-a-pandoras-box#comment-21406 When I was at a boarding secondary school and as a member of the Scripture Union, I and a few other students came under the influence of the Pentecostal/Charismatic Movement and we preached the same to others - recruited, if you like. Other students knew us. So did the teachers. Now if there is a massive drive in Ugandan boarding schools to recruit pupils into the gay life style, it is extraordinary that the recruiters have not been identified either by fellow students (the vast majority of whom are not gay) or staff. Schools can identify kids who smoke or drink, but have not been able to identify those "spreading" homosexuality the way we used to spread "Pentecostal Christianity"? - Rev Amos Kasibante Tue, 17 Nov 2009 02:40:19 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/index.php/column/comment/70-comment/2092-anti-gay-bill-opens-a-pandoras-box#comment-21405 ExGay (and I understand why you conceal your identity), I do not want to disbelieve you. I only insist that people like yourself do actually reveal the names of the people or organisations that gave you money to recruit others into homosexual practices. I also concur with the person (above) who made a difference between a homosexual orientation and same-sex sex (some of which may be a result of exploitation). Further, sir, homosexuality is not western thinking as such. There is still discrimination and persecution of gays in western countries including eastern Europe - certainly in Russia. Even in Britain where I live many homosexuals fear to reveal their sexual identity for fear of discrimination or worse. If you have been liberated from a bad habit you were recruited into I genuinely join you in thanking God for that. - Rev Amos Kasibante Tue, 17 Nov 2009 02:13:57 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/index.php/column/comment/70-comment/2092-anti-gay-bill-opens-a-pandoras-box#comment-21401 Rev Kasibante, I'm also a former gay who has since converted. I was recruited into it when I was a secondary school drop out in a Kampala slum. I was broke and in need of hard cash. My NGO friends received plenty of $$$ for this purpose from international friends. I myself became a recruiter of young boys into the gay lifestyle. I targeted educated youths who admired western thinking and were ashamed of their Africanness. So when you deny the existence of recruitment I wonder what planet you live on! Some folks from a small church loved me and explained the gospel to me, so I quit homosexuality, decided to live for God. I'm now trying to reach all my recruits to bring them from gay life to christian life, so help me God. - ExGay Tue, 17 Nov 2009 01:14:14 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/index.php/column/comment/70-comment/2092-anti-gay-bill-opens-a-pandoras-box#comment-21399 SKZ, you have the nerve to tell a grown man what he was or wasn't?! I WAS GAY, period. That is not just my opinion but the scientific diagnosis of professional therapists. I presume you're gay and can't stand the fact that I repented from that unnatural lifestyle. My gay friends now hate me because I'm telling people the truth about homosexuality. I've been pleasantly surprised to find that there's millions of repented homosexuals globally. There's help for all you gays (like SKZ) out there. Come out of that filth!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wr6T4ka7TxU&feature=player_embedded http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOTYFXZb_rE&feature=related - Tony the tiger Tue, 17 Nov 2009 00:23:48 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/index.php/column/comment/70-comment/2092-anti-gay-bill-opens-a-pandoras-box#comment-21398 The genocide of the Jews in Nazi Germany started like that. Jews were called "vermin". Same thing about genocide in Rwanda: use of words like "inyenzi" (roaches) or "snakes". Hitler wanted to promote the racial purity of the German race. Consequently he ordered the elimination of disabled people, Jews, Gypsies, and homosexuals. This recruitment myth is doing the rounds. Recently, President Museveni has repeated it, thus indirectly giving a nod to the anti-gay bill along a path that is a symptom of the scapegoating and demonising that have become a feature of political (public) discourse in Uganda. - Rev Amos Kasibante Mon, 16 Nov 2009 23:50:44 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/index.php/column/comment/70-comment/2092-anti-gay-bill-opens-a-pandoras-box#comment-21397 The biggest myth in the homosexuality debate is the suggestion (also made in Bahati's Bill) that homosexuality is a foreign or western habit, which these foreigner are trying to disseminate in African or Ugandan culture. It is credible to say that there are gay rights activists in Uganda and that they have the support of gay people especially in western capitals. But to suggest that there is some kind of clandestine and concerted recruitment drive into homosexuality is a gross exaggeration. If that were the case, our vigilant law enforcers would have apprehended and arrested such people. Note that the psychology of persecution, ethnic cleansing, and genocide begins when leaders (often intellectuals) create alarmist situations about the alleged contamination of or exploitation done by certain categories of people. - Rev Amos Kasibante Mon, 16 Nov 2009 23:43:14 +0100