Comments for Pastors loud on gays, silent on corruption at http://www.independent.co.ug , comment 1 to 35 out of 20 comments http://www.independent.co.ug Thu, 09 Feb 2012 06:28:17 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.independent.co.ug/column/insight/1173-pastors-loud-on-gays-silent-on-corruption#comment-20667 Arrest them? Put them before a firing squad? Some of the suggestions, above, truly amaze and horrify me. Are these Christian voices? Is this what Jesus would do? Never. Do you want the same for your sin -- whatever it may be? ALL have sinned. Do you want your loved ones and friends to go to prison if they don't turn you over to the police? NO! This is not the Spirit of Christ -- who came to forgive and and to redeem. - Michael Bussee Mon, 26 Oct 2009 10:40:39 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/column/insight/1173-pastors-loud-on-gays-silent-on-corruption#comment-16467 Omulongo Kato said he doubts my sincerity when it comes to the Bible. Simply because I said biblical interpretation has to pay attention to Bible, Tradition, Context, and Reason? The OT for example taught that a menstruating woman is ritually unclean, that touching a corpse renders you ritually unclean, and that anyone who insults mother or father should be stoned to death. Do Christians or even Jews still subscribe to this teaching? We pick and choose, guided by a number of considerations and use particular criteria, including advances in knowledge. Jesus was not glued on to Scripture, but re-interpreted it. - Rev Amos Kasibante Mon, 20 Jul 2009 12:20:16 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/column/insight/1173-pastors-loud-on-gays-silent-on-corruption#comment-16381 well Im a woman and Gods a man and Im still made in his image, Adam and Eve were white so directly the image of God and yet we have chinese, we have blacks and Indians etc....still acceptable to God even though look nothing like him, just as there are many colours believing and being saved by grace so too many types of people saved by grace following their saviour.........tell me if the bible is complete where did all the colours come from nothing like Gods original created???? i believe in the bible and reading it in context but it DOESNT cover everything or tell us everything assome say. - magdika Fri, 17 Jul 2009 15:04:12 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/column/insight/1173-pastors-loud-on-gays-silent-on-corruption#comment-16333 Are you really serious about Bible Interpretation Rev. Kasibante? Which Bible do you read? It is another thing to argue for fair treatment of all people but another thing to disparage the Bible as not being "applicable" so as to foster the Gay Agenda... Rev. Kasibante, I question your sincerity when it comes to the Bible. - Omulongo Kato Thu, 16 Jul 2009 01:32:57 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/column/insight/1173-pastors-loud-on-gays-silent-on-corruption#comment-16330 John, I know many people are intimidated by Science, even if it is so obvious to the naked eyes, John you can accept Scientific findings and at the same time believe in God. As a muganda I grew up knowing that when you touch your in law Mother as a male, Father as a female you get obuko!! we now know it is not true, we also know there is no cure for AIDS/HIV, how many Pastor have ****ed people telling them not to take medication that God will cure them, forgeting that God helps those who help themselves. John it is scientific research that has saved millions of lives, we know more about genes which bring about, sickle cell annemia, alcoholism, obisity, cancer, early menopose etc, you may deny the Gay gene but Science is here to stay,and as a believer you better catch up quick, and join those who read the Bible and understand it with clear conviiction that Science can exist a long side the teachings of the Bible. - Charles Kyazze Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:40:00 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/column/insight/1173-pastors-loud-on-gays-silent-on-corruption#comment-16307 St. Catherine of Siena, a religious mystic of the 14th century, relays the words of Our Lord Jesus Christ about the vice against nature, sodomy, which contaminated part of the clergy in her time. Referring to sacred ministers, He says: “They not only fail from resisting this frailty [of fallen human nature] … but do even worse as they commit the cursed sin against nature. Like the blind and stupid, having dimmed the light of their understanding, they do not recognize the disease and misery in which they find themselves. For this not only causes Me nausea, but displeases even the demons themselves, whom these miserable creatures have chosen as their lords. For Me, this sin against nature is so abominable that, for it alone, five cities were submersed, by virtue of the judgment of My Divine Justice, which could no longer bear them…. It is disagreeable to the demons, not because evil displeases them and they find pleasure in good, but because their nature is angelic and thus is repulsed upon seeing such an enormous sin being committed. It is true that it is the demon who hits the sinner with the poisoned arrow of lust, but when a man carries out such a sinful act, the demon leaves.” [St. Catherine of Siena, El diálogo, in Obras de Santa Catarina de Siena (Madrid: BAC, 1991), p. 292] St. Bernardine of Siena, a preacher of the fifteenth century, makes an accurate psychological analysis of the consequences of the homosexual vice. The illustrious Franciscan says: No sin has greater power over the soul than the one of cursed sodomy, which was always detested by all those who lived according to God. Such passion borders on madness. This vice disturbs the intellect, breaks an elevated and generous state of soul, drags great thoughts to petty ones, makes men pusillanimous and irascible, obstinate and hardened, servilely soft and incapable of anything. Furthermore, the will, being agitated by the insatiable drive for pleasure, no longer follows reason, but furor. Someone who lived practicing the vice of sodomy will suffer more pains in Hell than any one else, because this is the worst sin that there is. [St. Bernardine of Siena, Predica 39, in Le prediche volgari (Milan: Rizzoli, 1936), pp. 869ff., 915, in F. Bernadei, op. cit., pp. 11f] St. John Chrysostom denounces homosexual acts as being contrary to nature. Commenting on Romans 1: 26-27, he says that the pleasures of sodomy are an unpardonable offense to nature and are doubly destructive, since they threaten the species by deviating the sexual organs away from their primary pro creative end and they sow disharmony between men and women, who no longer are inclined by physical desire to live together in peace. This brilliant Patriarch of Constantinople employs most severe words for the vice we are analyzing. He makes this strong argument: “All passions are dishonorable, for the soul is even more prejudiced and degraded by sin than is the body by disease; but the worst of all passions is lust between men…. The sins against nature are more difficult and less rewarding, since true pleasure is only the one according to nature. But when God abandons a man, everything is turned upside down! Therefore, not only are their passions [of the homosexuals] satanic, but their lives are diabolic….. So I say to you that these are even worse than murderers, and that it would be better to die than to live in such dishonor. A murderer only separates the soul from the body, whereas these destroy the soul inside the body….. There is nothing, absolutely nothing more mad or damaging than this perversity.” (St. John Chrysostom, In Epistulam ad Romanos IV, in J. McNeill, op. cit., pp. 89-90) St. Augustine, the great Bishop of Hippo, while combating sodomy and similar vices, writes: “Sins against nature, therefore, like the sin of Sodom, are abominable and deserve punishment whenever and wherever they are committed. If all nations committed them, all alike would be held guilty of the same charge in God’s law, for our Maker did not prescribe that we should use each other in this way. In fact, the relationship that we ought to have with God is itself violated when our nature, of which He is Author, is desecrated by perverted lust.” Further on he reiterates: “Your punishments are for sins which men commit against themselves, because, although they sin against You, they do wrong in their own souls and their malice is self-betrayed. They corrupt and pervert their own nature, which You made and for which You shaped the rules, either by making wrong use of the things which You allow, or by becoming inflamed with passion to make unnatural use of things which You do not allow” (Rom. 1:26). (St. Augustine, Confessions, Book III, chap. 8) Saint Gregory the Great delves deeper into the symbolism of the fire and brimstone that God used to punish the sodomites: “Brimstone calls to mind the foul odors of the flesh, as Sacred Scripture itself confirms when it speaks of the rain of fire and brimstone poured by the Lord upon Sodom. He had decided to punish in it the crimes of the flesh, and the very type of punishment emphasized the shame of that crime, since brimstone exhales stench and fire burns. It was, therefore, just that the sodomites, burning with perverse desires that originated from the foul odor of flesh, should perish at the same time by fire and brimstone so that through this just chastisement they might realize the evil perpetrated under the impulse of a perverse desire.” (St. Gregory the Great, Commento morale a Giobbe, XIV, 23, vol. II, p. 371, Ibid., p. 7) St. Albert the Great gives four reasons why he considers homosexual acts as the most detestable ones. He says: "They are born from an ardent frenzy; they are disgustingly foul; those who become addicted to them are seldom freed from that vice; they are as contagious as disease, passing quickly from one person to another." (St. Albert the Great, In Evangelium Lucae XVII, 29, in J. McNeill, op. cit., p. 95) St. Peter Damian also writes: "This vice strives to destroy the walls of one’s heavenly motherland and rebuild those of devastated Sodom. Indeed, it violates temperance, ****s purity, stifles chastity and annihilates virginity ... It infects, stains and pollutes everything. It leaves nothing pure, there is nothing but filth... This vice expels one from the choir of the ecclesiastical host and obliges one to join the energumens and those who work in league with the devil. It separates the soul from God and links it with the demons. Homosexuality, most pestiferous queen of the Sodomites makes those who obey her tyrannical laws repugnant to men and hateful to God ... It humiliates at church, condemns at court, defiles in secret, dishonors in public, gnaws at the person’s conscience like a worm and burns his flesh like fire..." “The miserable flesh burns with the fire of lust, the cold intelligence trembles under the rancor of suspicion, and the unfortunate man’s heart is possessed by hellish chaos, and his pains of conscience are as great as the tortures in punishment he will suffer ... Indeed, this scourge destroys the foundations of faith, weakens the force of hope, dissipates the bonds of charity, annihilates justice, undermines fortitude, ... and dulls the edge of prudence. “... In effect, the one whom this atrocious beast of homosexuality has swallowed down its bloody throat is prevented, by the weight of his chains, from practicing all good works and is precipitated into the very abysses of its uttermost wickedness. Thus, as soon as someone has fallen into this chasm of extreme perdition, he is exiled from the heavenly motherland, separated from the Body of Christ, confounded by the authority of the whole Church, condemned by the judgment of all the Holy Fathers, despised by men on earth, and reproved by the society of heavenly citizens. He creates for himself an earth of iron and a sky of bronze ... He cannot be happy while he lives nor have hope when he dies, because in life he is obliged to suffer the ignominy of men’s derision and later, the torment of eternal condemnation” (Liber Gomorrhianus, in PL 145, col. 159-178). Who in his right mind would be happy to be in such as situation, waiting as it were, to commence serving his/her sentence of eternal torments in the fires of Hell. Moreover, even those who condone or promote homosexuality, actively or passively, as well as those who are indifferent, will all be condemned to eternal damnation. Such is the strictness and rigor of Divine justice. - Dunns Scotus Tue, 14 Jul 2009 18:43:32 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/column/insight/1173-pastors-loud-on-gays-silent-on-corruption#comment-16304 They are hypocrites, who are turning the Gospel upside down. They are corrupt so they cant preach against it. Their homophobic sermons are just to attract the government to support and donate money for them. Time has come for us to begin to speak loudly against this ministers of doom. - Davis Tue, 14 Jul 2009 16:51:15 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/column/insight/1173-pastors-loud-on-gays-silent-on-corruption#comment-16303 Its amazing how much hate, enslavement and colonisation was carried out in the name of God and the bible. And how quickly we forget when it suits us. By the way it is not criminal to be gay, the law only specifies that it is criminal to engage in sodomy. So arresting someone for being gay is actially a non starter. But let me pose a question: would anyone in their right mind would voluntarily choose a life that risks illegal arrest, disownment by their families, rejection by their friends and workmates, a life where one needs to tell so many lies just to be able to keep going, a life that in the end is quite a lonely one. Ask your self if one would really choose such a life if a choice was presented. Think about it guys. - Mwana Wa Taka Tue, 14 Jul 2009 16:18:07 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/column/insight/1173-pastors-loud-on-gays-silent-on-corruption#comment-16294 Romans 1:26-27 (26) For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: (27) And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet. Leviticus 18:22 (22) Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. Jude 1:7 (7) Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. GOD HATES HOMOSEXUALITY! THE PASTORS (OF WHOM I AM ONE) ARE RIGHT TO FIGHT THE VICE BECOZ GOD HATES IT. WHETHER OR NOT THE LAWS EXIST, GOD'S LAW IS THE HIGHEST AND WE SHALL ALL STAND TO BE JUDGED BY IT ON THE LAST DAY. HOMOSEXUALS, REPENT AND TURN TO JESUS. HE WILL WASH AWAY ALL YOUR SINS... INCLUDING HOMOSEXUALITY - Apostle Edward Ssewanyana Tue, 14 Jul 2009 13:06:12 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/column/insight/1173-pastors-loud-on-gays-silent-on-corruption#comment-16291 I wish to point out to the crusading pastors that while homosexuality is evil,there is also the evil of corruption ,vote rigging and wastage of tax payers money by M7, he owns 2 private jets and a recently refurbished state house at a cost of 100 million dollars while the "biological substances" of teso starve to death. Over to you pastors male,sempa and kyazze, feel free rant and rave about that!! It's costing lives by the minute - charles lwanga Tue, 14 Jul 2009 11:42:18 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/column/insight/1173-pastors-loud-on-gays-silent-on-corruption#comment-16283 Guys you are free to reason and make excuses of all kind. But imagine if you had your child and you send him to attend church with an expectation of developing him to grow into a focused and responsible character. And then you hear such stories that the very people you thought that are providing him with spiritual guidence are the very ones that have forced your child into homosexuality, and later you come to learn that even your child has developed physical illnesses that will never cure on top of living with that psychological stigma thorought all his life!! Say what you want but such a pastors who teache one thing and practices another derserve to be put on a firing squad!!! Okey if homosexuality is genetic, then let them teach about it openly in the church, why do they practice it in secrecy then? Dont be fooled if the Bible it true, it clearly teaches that such people, their wages is in the sea of fire and brimstone. - Grace Tue, 14 Jul 2009 03:38:54 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/column/insight/1173-pastors-loud-on-gays-silent-on-corruption#comment-16277 But why hold on to the Victorian laws of carnal knowledge that were brought to Uganda by the British , Sempa and your friends ask your self why have the countries that brought laws here repealed them. You ought to be ashamed of your self making money at the expense of innocent lives , the church has alot to deal with rather than preach hate crimes, imagine a church preaching acts against humanity . I dont think you are believers - Mugerwa Mon, 13 Jul 2009 19:24:33 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/column/insight/1173-pastors-loud-on-gays-silent-on-corruption#comment-16265 It is so annoying and embarrassing to be a witness to narrow minds and watered brains that some Ugandans have. No wonder we shall continue being called a country in the 3rd world and we happily embrace that categorization thinking that at least we are not the last in civilization. We get so happy to be put in this class because we continue getting help from the western world and we sit back and relax and enjoy our poverty not only of the financial status but even the mental poverty. reason being we dont want to read and if we try and read we take the obvious interpretation that every one gets. Why is it so hard for the self proclaimed believers to understand that that book they so much believe in and use to crucify others was made for that purpose and it confuses them the more? I mean the bible, This book attached with the religions it fronts are philosophies that one can choose to adopt or ignore, so you will see that there is a choice between choosing to believe in the bible, religion or not. There is a saying here that if u want to get to the heart and brain of an African very fast give him food and money and hide away the books. Do u know why??? Because we dont want to read. The reason i am so much dwelling on the reading habit is simple. If we were readers then we would be learned people and not just educated that way we would be able to solve alot of riddles and do a lot of research into the non issues we are debating so foolishly here and giving irrelevant examples. That all said the issue of homosexuality that every religious clergy man is fronting is a non issue at all. The same bible these so called men of God are using is the same bible that put the women of this world back in the kitchens for all those centuries, its the same book that was used in the apartheid era in south Africa and so may other brutal things done to man kind in reference to this controversial novel and now they are fronting it again to fight Homosexuality. No wonder its being fronted and financed by the right wing Christians fro America. My fellow Africans open up your eyes and brains and start discussing real issues other than homosexuality which battle i n know you will never win no matter what the time because homosexuals are born by heterosexuals like you. - Gerald Mon, 13 Jul 2009 13:06:54 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/column/insight/1173-pastors-loud-on-gays-silent-on-corruption#comment-16254 In my view, proper interpretation of the Bible - for we all interpret or at least select what to stress or not stress - should take into consideration the following: (1)the Bible (2)context (3) Tradition (4) Reason. The latter includes scientific knowledge and openness to new knowledge. We cannot simply apply statements straight from the Bible to our situation. For the example the New Testament says that women should not teach/preach in the church and should just remain quiet: cultural context? - Rev Amos Kasibante Sun, 12 Jul 2009 15:46:13 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/column/insight/1173-pastors-loud-on-gays-silent-on-corruption#comment-16243 The religious butters will always use their fictitious book and invisible friend to justify their own prejudices. The real shame is that Africa in still in thrall to this superstitious nonsense. Most prejudice falls away once people are allowed to think for themselves rather than being told what to think on pain of damnation by crooked bigots in dresses. - Steve Sat, 11 Jul 2009 18:23:42 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/column/insight/1173-pastors-loud-on-gays-silent-on-corruption#comment-16221 @ - Mr.Charles Kyazze Dont be fooled by research for the same bible says God made man in his likeness and God aint gay...So how can one be born Gay.....This so called research u so boost urself in aint gonna save no gay nor friend of urs hu`s gay at day of judgement for God hates Gayism...So he will Judge them accordling.... Now it`s also true i do spprt ur statement: alot of pastors out there are manuplating the poor out the there livelyhood savings,keeping quiet on corruption and many more injustices instead of voicin loud their voices against such ills... Just like they are voicing loud on gayism they should too on the other injustices..For the oppressed run to them only to be hit even harder by them... We all shall be judged accordling on that day but dont be fooled all human being is made in God`s likeness..He aint Gay so no one is born Gay..they become like that later on ini life.... - Mr.bwanika john Fri, 10 Jul 2009 21:34:49 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/column/insight/1173-pastors-loud-on-gays-silent-on-corruption#comment-16214 These people should look at problems facing the society other than focusing on homosexuality or any other form of sexual orientation. Talk of corruption, food, shelter, school for the Northern children who are droping out of school and many other. I question Pastor Sempa's role over homosexuality. Talk of crimes in the neigbourhood and preach the gospel as Jesus did. He loved poor souls to be washed into the Spiritual holiness. He is loosing credibility because of his stance. Let him readmy words may be he can refocus on meaning ful advocacy not sexual orientation and attacking ugandans in diaspora. - Rogers B. Fri, 10 Jul 2009 17:45:49 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/column/insight/1173-pastors-loud-on-gays-silent-on-corruption#comment-16184 I don't care what the bible says. Being gay is unnatural an that is why the law criminalises it....very harshly...life in prison. Even gays know this, that is why they hide. There is no amount of explanation especially linked to God or the bible that can justify being gay. The law is the law and must be respected. - Kimuli Thu, 09 Jul 2009 23:30:15 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/column/insight/1173-pastors-loud-on-gays-silent-on-corruption#comment-16179 So many do not understand the link between sexuality, personality, individuality, and a persons being. You can't say homosexuality is a sin when there sexuality is ingrained within them from birth. Their orientation is not a choice. Living a good life is a choice. You can be gay and achieve great things in life. Gays are actively involved in the arts, government, finance, sport, education, hospitality, global corporations, business, everywhere. - Andrew Jones Thu, 09 Jul 2009 16:43:31 +0100 http://www.independent.co.ug/column/insight/1173-pastors-loud-on-gays-silent-on-corruption#comment-16177 To all my gay brothers and sisters - you are not alone. Your lives have great value. You have been made in the image of God and you are fearfully and wonderfully made! :cheer: Your LOVE is enriching and life giving. Choose life. Not all who serve God are of God. Live FREE. - Andrew Jones Thu, 09 Jul 2009 16:26:38 +0100